Is there something in particular she likes? Like, chocolates or whatever. [Wait...] Are nuns allowed to accept chocolates?
Yeah, maybe. You have a point, yeah.
.... Guess that's the whole deal about 'love dares you', you know? Maybe it's not even romantic love. Like, when people have kids and they say that it changes their lives completely.
No, it wouldn't be better. I'm not signing anyone's body parts. It's weird.
Not if people are using the chocolates to woo her, but I really hope that's not what you'd be doing by buying her chocolates.
I think it's natural to want to be a better person because of the people around you. Translating that into taking better care of yourself... it's hard when that sometimes directly contradicts the job you have to do.
... You're a weido, did you know that? [That's so messed up. So messed up she's gonna use it against it.] Why? Afraid you'll end up calling me 'mommy'?
Yeah, that's a good point. But there's also different types of looking after yourself.
[Kate lets out a laugh at Matt's confusion.] Not cosplayers signing! I meant if you'd sign a cosplay. Like, helmets and stuff. People used to ask that of Cap or Tony Stark.
Shit, I can't even go on with that joke. [It just felt wrong.] I'm just thinking... You know when you go to someone's house and you come with a bottle of wine or some gift of some kind... Should I bring something?
[Now, that is a good question.] ... Huh... Not dying? [She might suck a little at caring about herself, really.]
Right, because you think he didn't sign any tits? Unlike you, he probably drew all over them.
But it's totally necessary! If you bring donuts to a meeting everyone is instantly in a good mood. [Not that she thinks Matt's mom will dislike her. Or that Kate wants to suck up to her.] But, you know, if you think it's not appropiate then that's okay.
Hey, you're being unfair. I never called you out for it! I'm just -- The song reminds me of you, that's all.
Yeah, that doesn't say anything positive about him or the people wanting a Stark autograph on themselves.
I don't think it's inappropriate, just not necessary. It's very sweet, Kate. You don't have to but if you did I'm sure she'd appreciate it. She likes chai teas.
It sounds like it applies to you, too. I can worry about you.
I just like getting things for people. [Just like she had brought a nice bottle the day Matt invited her to visit the office of his new firm for the first time.] And chai tea is totally doable.
Guess we'll have to share the song then. [She goes silent, wondering if she's crossing some line. But... She already said it, it's not necesarilly romantic. It's fine.] Caring about each other. [She breaths out the next words with a little amusement.] Trying to figure how to look after ourselves.
I think his policies and choices over the decades have been short-sighted, selfish, eco-and-ego-centric, and incredibly harmful. A Hail Mary sacrifice at the end doesn't change the damage done by years of systemic willful ignorance, with pathetic golf claps at high level policies without ever living where the ideology needed to exist. ... maybe he was a nice man in person, but he was not a good man for governmental policies, and just because he had money he never should have been given the chance to push changes. Which goes for most of our 1%. At least you're living and experiencing the needs of people on the streets. It's not all about fighting aliens and trying to pull a Fisk at a national level with Registration.
[Matt had lived on a street level through that bullshit. He'd lived through so many 'mishaps' at Stark Industries. The problem wasn't just the man, it was The Man, the systemic corrupted system that gave far too much power to predominately rich white men with toys.] For the record, I don't like Stark Industries any better with Pepper Potts in charge. She can cry about the poor kids and throw money around all she wants that's really just pocket change to her, it doesn't change the inherent corruption at that level of disproportionate wealth. And again, I'm sure she's not some evil witch. She's just benefitting from a system that needs change at the starting level, not someone smiling at the camera as they write a check.
... I'm sorry. I just... I'm in the courtroom all the time with these people's lawyers. It's exhausting. It's not an attack on you, who at least are there on a street level fighting alongside people who need it. Or even Tony or Pepper. It's just a broken system that we can get drunk over one day if you really want to hear how some broke lawyer from Hell's Kitchen would start addressing it.
... anyway, back to tea. My mom does like chai! I wasn't lying. I can't help it if I'm my mother's son.
... I remember. Two golden retrievers bonding. He really liked you, Kate.
[Kate falls silent, hearing Matt's tone as he gets more and more heated, talking about the issues men like the one who sold the phone that is right now in her hands, the issues men like him perpetrated.
Maybe Kate had never been too crazy about Stark, but Matt, speaking on that sharp tone she's seen him reserve for court or snappy clients, he opens her eyes in a way she had not experienced before. Because even though she can be conscious about these issues at times, there's so many things that sometimes simply goes over her head, practically unnoticed.]
You... Do have a lot ot feelings about this. [She comments right before Matt apologizes for it.] Hey! No, no, it's okay. I -- You know I love it when you get passionate about stuff. And every point you made makes so much sense! It's cool, Matt. Really!
... So, you normally bond about tea?
Two golden retrievers, yeah. [She falls silent.] I hope so. We didn't hang that often, but every time left a cool memory. Foggy always had the best stories.
[A beat.] Angela, Hector's niece, came to me. When Hector died. She checked my own privilege. I have it, even while having been on the shit receiving end of people like Stark's. I just wish people would be open to learn. So. It's not about ranting. It's about finding solutions. One at a time. I know Fisk is the priority now.
Yeah. She and I bond over tea now. And she became a sounding board when Lantom died. I don't know. My dad... he was just solid, you know? He was always there. Always. My mother... we had to work to trust one another. It taught me a lot about myself. About giving people grace.
[As she listens to Matt speak, Kate feels herself leaning forward on her seat, as if she was ready to stand away from Matt's couch and literally stand up for him.]
See? This is what I'm talking about, Matt. This - This is why to me you are a hero. You don't take shit for granted. You do listen to a teen girl and her worries and respect and learn from them. [Because this is about finding solutions, just like he said it.] Look, you know I missed Daredevil. But even without a suit, people like you make a huge difference.
[She's so glad D is back, though.]
You.. I've always been a little confused about the relationship between you and your mom. Because you know her, but you also grew up in her orphanage?
Shut up. [It comes as a knee-jerk reaction, even if her tone is full of joy. Touched, really. Because that has to be the best compliment Matt could give to a person.] .... Because you think I'm a golden retriever too?
... maybe. I mean, that does mean a lot. Hero or whatever, standing up matters. I can't call Frank a hero, but he's on our side. I do call people who aren't fighters who rise up heroes. Yeah. Anyone who is willing to stand up for what matters and set their ego aside, we need right now. Along with people like you, who stood the tide no matter what.
... my mom went through a lot. She was sick. I don't know that it's my story to tell. I found out she was my mother in my thirties. After my time at the orphanage. Just know that I was safe at the orphanage, even if I was one of many. And she was who I needed her to be after Lantom died.
I think you're ridiculous, but the world needs a little ridiculous. And that you're stubborn, for the people who need it.
I think that the world isn't like, black or white. [She was learning the hard way. It reminded her... Of what Matt himself had told her when he shared his past, what his dad's gloves meant to him, along with Stick's weapons. They were complicated men, just like Eleanor was a complicated woman. And... They're probably complicated in their own way.] Frank's methods might be messed up, but he still stands up for doing the right thing. You, Matt Murdock, fight just as hard as Daredevil does. In different fields, but both are so important.
... [She listens, almost fearing she is intruding somewhere that is not her place. But Matt, as always, is generous with her.] I'm really happy for you, that you could reconnect with her.
... So, I'm basically your funny sidekick. [She's teasing, even though that only proves that... Well, he did just compare her to his best friend. It doesn't get closer to the friendzone than that.
.... Not that he is single or you have a chance, Kate. For fuck's sake.]
No. It's not black and white. But there do have to be some lines. Accountability. A social contract in place. We can't do whatever we want. We have to work alongside a society that aims for the best. If not... it's our civic duty to rebel and demand better.
Me, too. I'm even more happy for all the kids she's helped who never had a father or a Stick. Those kids who only ever knew Sister Maggie and the others at the orphanage - what a little fireball of ethical indignation and unrelenting love we have coming.
I didn't mean that. Foggy wasn't just... [A beat, because it hurts to have what he meant brought to such reductionist terms. A failure in doing what he meant, what Foggy meant, justice.] I think I'm too tired to talk about it right now. I'm not saying it right.
Yeah, you have a point. But... We don't have much room right now to be picky about who helps us, can we? I'm not crazy about Frank's methods, but if this bullshit with the task force keeps going on we are going to have to ask for help, Matt.
[It kinda feels wrong to imply that Matt had to suffer in his childhood for other kids to enjoy the love his mother couldn't give him. But she says nothing, impressed by how he finds kindess and accepts things for how they turned out.] It must be hard. Like, that sounds like rewarding, but also such a huge responsibility.
... [Well, fuck. That was supposed to be a joke but it landed so bad.] No, no..! Matt -- [She tries interrupting him.] Sorry, that was a dumb joke. I was thinking more of the description itself than of what that said about Foggy. [She takes a deep breath, begging to some God she doesn't really believe in so that she's not messed up things with Matt.] I totally get what you mean. Foggy was... Foggy wasn't afraid of being totally ridiculous, but he was also a total badass in the court and... Like I said, he fought in another field. Just as important, or maybe even more important than what we do in our costumes.
I saw Frank. He doesn't see this as his fight. [Matt's voice holds some judgement, which is always part of why he and Frank can never stay on the same page for long. A clash of ideologies that Matt has now drawn as a permanent refusal to help, rather than Frank doing Frank's Own Shit in Frank's Own Way - which is PRECISELY Why Fury never recruited either Frank or Matt. They are two sides of the same damn coin. Matt does Matt's Shit Matt's Way. His way just falls in line with Peter's, with Kate's, with the Defenders, so there's no real clash. Frank, though? Frank will talk Matt to death on a rooftop with one or the other chained for hours and Go Through It - fight an army - then go back to fighting yelling at one another. The epitome of a couple that Stays Up To Fight rather than going to bed angry.]
For her, you mean? She seems to like what she does, but you'd have to ask.
I just... meant it well. The world needs more people like Foggy.
[He, Matt, needed more people like that in his life.]
But... How long ago? Things have changed a lot lately, even Frank sure understands that. [It really shocks her, how someone who claims to want justice can just pretend not to watch and do nothing when people need him.] Besides, that's total bullshit. The fucking bullet on my door had his skull, Matt. [She hadn't brought that up yet. But she did bring the bullet in a plastic bag, just in case. Proof. Maybe Frank should see it too.] They're using his symbol!
I doubt you can do a job like hers unless you like it.
Matt... Really, I get it. You would never bring Foggy up and say anything but something nice and true about him. [God, she feels awful now.] ... There's something of Foggy in you too, you know?
... I talked to him right after Hector's case. He knew about the task force. The bullets. [Though it has gotten worse.] I can't deal with Frank right now. Let's get through Fisk's gala.
Yeah. She said she had a calling. A destiny. [Matt loved his dad, he idolized Jack Murdock and took the morality of how to be a good man from him. Yet the suffering and shame, the dragging herself up to become something new that protected others with a feral shield... Daredevil felt in his soul that he was Maggie's son.]
I was talking about how you were like him. Not me.
No way. And he didn't give a shit? [Well, so much for trusting the Punisher might ever give them a hand. Clearly, this is a fight only Peter, Matt and her are fighting.] Yeah. Shit, I'm just glad I remembered to bring my fucking dress and shoes, you know. Borrowing one of your suits would have been right up my alley, but we're not exactly the same size.
[She doesn't need to read his mind to think something similar.] That sounds familiar.
And I'm telling you that I see some of Foggy in you too. [Sure, she didn't know Foggy like Matt did, but she had spent time with them both to see it.] Don't sell yourself short. Remember I've seen you two, totally shitfaced.
He didn't seem to. [A grudging tone in his voice. Like Matt wants to rail, but when hearing another's rebuke it's like a brother getting huffy on behalf of another brother. Only Matt can give shit until he knows otherwise.] Right. Yeah. I should get changed.
I guess it does.
You bring people together. Even at that shitfaced dinner.
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She is.
I'd say you do the same. You're out there at night too, not just me.
... It's a hard lesson to learn.
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Is there something in particular she likes? Like, chocolates or whatever. [Wait...] Are nuns allowed to accept chocolates?
Yeah, maybe. You have a point, yeah.
.... Guess that's the whole deal about 'love dares you', you know? Maybe it's not even romantic love. Like, when people have kids and they say that it changes their lives completely.
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Not if people are using the chocolates to woo her, but I really hope that's not what you'd be doing by buying her chocolates.
I think it's natural to want to be a better person because of the people around you. Translating that into taking better care of yourself... it's hard when that sometimes directly contradicts the job you have to do.
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... You're a weido, did you know that? [That's so messed up. So messed up she's gonna use it against it.] Why? Afraid you'll end up calling me 'mommy'?
Yeah, that's a good point. But there's also different types of looking after yourself.
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You're the weird one, wanting to woo a nun with chocolates. Leave the religious folks be, Kate.
So what type of looking after yourself do you do?
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Shit, I can't even go on with that joke. [It just felt wrong.] I'm just thinking... You know when you go to someone's house and you come with a bottle of wine or some gift of some kind... Should I bring something?
[Now, that is a good question.] ... Huh... Not dying? [She might suck a little at caring about herself, really.]
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I think that is very sweet of you. Probably not necessary to bring something to a meeting about volunteer work, but she does like tea and chocolate.
Physician, heal thyself.
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But it's totally necessary! If you bring donuts to a meeting everyone is instantly in a good mood. [Not that she thinks Matt's mom will dislike her. Or that Kate wants to suck up to her.] But, you know, if you think it's not appropiate then that's okay.
Hey, you're being unfair. I never called you out for it! I'm just -- The song reminds me of you, that's all.
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I don't think it's inappropriate, just not necessary. It's very sweet, Kate. You don't have to but if you did I'm sure she'd appreciate it. She likes chai teas.
It sounds like it applies to you, too. I can worry about you.
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I just like getting things for people. [Just like she had brought a nice bottle the day Matt invited her to visit the office of his new firm for the first time.] And chai tea is totally doable.
Guess we'll have to share the song then. [She goes silent, wondering if she's crossing some line. But... She already said it, it's not necesarilly romantic. It's fine.] Caring about each other. [She breaths out the next words with a little amusement.] Trying to figure how to look after ourselves.
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If you get her extra I can have some when I visit her. Just make it good quality loose leaf tea.
It covers the bases when we fall short on ourselves.
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Oh, I see your true colors now. You want it for yourself!
Yeah, it does. [She suddenly chuckles.] But you remember that night at my place? Foggy got so shitfaced he ended on the floor with Lucky.
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[Matt had lived on a street level through that bullshit. He'd lived through so many 'mishaps' at Stark Industries. The problem wasn't just the man, it was The Man, the systemic corrupted system that gave far too much power to predominately rich white men with toys.] For the record, I don't like Stark Industries any better with Pepper Potts in charge. She can cry about the poor kids and throw money around all she wants that's really just pocket change to her, it doesn't change the inherent corruption at that level of disproportionate wealth. And again, I'm sure she's not some evil witch. She's just benefitting from a system that needs change at the starting level, not someone smiling at the camera as they write a check.
... I'm sorry. I just... I'm in the courtroom all the time with these people's lawyers. It's exhausting. It's not an attack on you, who at least are there on a street level fighting alongside people who need it. Or even Tony or Pepper. It's just a broken system that we can get drunk over one day if you really want to hear how some broke lawyer from Hell's Kitchen would start addressing it.
... anyway, back to tea. My mom does like chai! I wasn't lying. I can't help it if I'm my mother's son.
... I remember. Two golden retrievers bonding. He really liked you, Kate.
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Maybe Kate had never been too crazy about Stark, but Matt, speaking on that sharp tone she's seen him reserve for court or snappy clients, he opens her eyes in a way she had not experienced before. Because even though she can be conscious about these issues at times, there's so many things that sometimes simply goes over her head, practically unnoticed.]
You... Do have a lot ot feelings about this. [She comments right before Matt apologizes for it.] Hey! No, no, it's okay. I -- You know I love it when you get passionate about stuff. And every point you made makes so much sense! It's cool, Matt. Really!
... So, you normally bond about tea?
Two golden retrievers, yeah. [She falls silent.] I hope so. We didn't hang that often, but every time left a cool memory. Foggy always had the best stories.
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[A beat.] Angela, Hector's niece, came to me. When Hector died. She checked my own privilege. I have it, even while having been on the shit receiving end of people like Stark's. I just wish people would be open to learn. So. It's not about ranting. It's about finding solutions. One at a time. I know Fisk is the priority now.
Yeah. She and I bond over tea now. And she became a sounding board when Lantom died. I don't know. My dad... he was just solid, you know? He was always there. Always. My mother... we had to work to trust one another. It taught me a lot about myself. About giving people grace.
You remind me of him sometimes.
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See? This is what I'm talking about, Matt. This - This is why to me you are a hero. You don't take shit for granted. You do listen to a teen girl and her worries and respect and learn from them. [Because this is about finding solutions, just like he said it.] Look, you know I missed Daredevil. But even without a suit, people like you make a huge difference.
[She's so glad D is back, though.]
You.. I've always been a little confused about the relationship between you and your mom. Because you know her, but you also grew up in her orphanage?
Shut up. [It comes as a knee-jerk reaction, even if her tone is full of joy. Touched, really. Because that has to be the best compliment Matt could give to a person.] .... Because you think I'm a golden retriever too?
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... my mom went through a lot. She was sick. I don't know that it's my story to tell. I found out she was my mother in my thirties. After my time at the orphanage. Just know that I was safe at the orphanage, even if I was one of many. And she was who I needed her to be after Lantom died.
I think you're ridiculous, but the world needs a little ridiculous. And that you're stubborn, for the people who need it.
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... [She listens, almost fearing she is intruding somewhere that is not her place. But Matt, as always, is generous with her.] I'm really happy for you, that you could reconnect with her.
... So, I'm basically your funny sidekick. [She's teasing, even though that only proves that... Well, he did just compare her to his best friend. It doesn't get closer to the friendzone than that.
.... Not that he is single or you have a chance, Kate. For fuck's sake.]
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Me, too. I'm even more happy for all the kids she's helped who never had a father or a Stick. Those kids who only ever knew Sister Maggie and the others at the orphanage - what a little fireball of ethical indignation and unrelenting love we have coming.
I didn't mean that. Foggy wasn't just... [A beat, because it hurts to have what he meant brought to such reductionist terms. A failure in doing what he meant, what Foggy meant, justice.] I think I'm too tired to talk about it right now. I'm not saying it right.
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[It kinda feels wrong to imply that Matt had to suffer in his childhood for other kids to enjoy the love his mother couldn't give him. But she says nothing, impressed by how he finds kindess and accepts things for how they turned out.] It must be hard. Like, that sounds like rewarding, but also such a huge responsibility.
... [Well, fuck. That was supposed to be a joke but it landed so bad.] No, no..! Matt -- [She tries interrupting him.] Sorry, that was a dumb joke. I was thinking more of the description itself than of what that said about Foggy. [She takes a deep breath, begging to some God she doesn't really believe in so that she's not messed up things with Matt.] I totally get what you mean. Foggy was... Foggy wasn't afraid of being totally ridiculous, but he was also a total badass in the court and... Like I said, he fought in another field. Just as important, or maybe even more important than what we do in our costumes.
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For her, you mean? She seems to like what she does, but you'd have to ask.
I just... meant it well. The world needs more people like Foggy.
[He, Matt, needed more people like that in his life.]
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I doubt you can do a job like hers unless you like it.
Matt... Really, I get it. You would never bring Foggy up and say anything but something nice and true about him. [God, she feels awful now.] ... There's something of Foggy in you too, you know?
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Yeah. She said she had a calling. A destiny. [Matt loved his dad, he idolized Jack Murdock and took the morality of how to be a good man from him. Yet the suffering and shame, the dragging herself up to become something new that protected others with a feral shield... Daredevil felt in his soul that he was Maggie's son.]
I was talking about how you were like him. Not me.
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[She doesn't need to read his mind to think something similar.] That sounds familiar.
And I'm telling you that I see some of Foggy in you too. [Sure, she didn't know Foggy like Matt did, but she had spent time with them both to see it.] Don't sell yourself short. Remember I've seen you two, totally shitfaced.
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I guess it does.
You bring people together. Even at that shitfaced dinner.
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